My guest for this episode is Meta Commerse. Meta is a poet, a novelist, and a healer. My initial motivation for this interview was and still is as a continuation of my series on Racial Reconciliation, because Meta offers a class through her Story Medicine Wisdom School titled, ‘Story Medicine for Racial Healing.’ But as I learned that Meta was a poet and novelist and had developed this resource she calls story medicine, I wanted to talk with her about each of those aspects–her art, her development of story medicine, and the use of her art and story medicine is facilitating racial healing. As you will learn, Meta prefers to speak of racial healing rather than racial reconciliation. It is because of her reasoning on this issue that I am changing the name of my ongoing series.
Consequently, this episode is the first of three. In this episode I talk with Meta about her story as it lead to her being poet and novelist and you will get to hear Meta read some of her poems and a selection from her novel.
Meta is the author of six books: Landscapes of Abuse (2001), Rainsongs: Poems of a Woman’s Life (2012), The Mending Time, a novel (2014), Blues Doula, poems by Meta Commerse (2019), Womaning, a memoir (forthcoming), and Diamonds and Pyramids: Story Medicine for Racial Healing (forthcoming).
I want to offer a special word of thanks to Carol and Tony Asiaghi for letting Meta and I use their beautiful and peaceful West Asheville Garden Retreat and Sanctuary to record these three interviews.
The Ekklesia Project began as the result of conversations about the works of Catholic political scientist, Mike Budde, and Protestant theologian, Stanley Hauerwas. Both Budde and Hauerwas hold that the primary task of Christian churches is to live as faithful followers of Jesus Christ. Budde and Hauerwas, each in their on way, go on to claim that churches’ efforts to live faithfully to Christ in the United States have been compromised by their own self-understanding and purpose, and hindered by their accommodation to the culture of the United States. To live as faithful followers of Jesus Christ is to give priority of one’s allegiance and loyalty to God’s Kingdom over any other entity seeking that same allegiance and loyalty. Such a commitment is a political commitment, thus making faithful followers of Jesus Christ a unique politics.
Those involved with the Ekklesia Project agree with Budde and Hauerwas and have believed it useful and helpful to organized in such a way that their shared efforts enable them as individuals, congregations, institutions, and traditions live more faithfully as the Church.
As the Ekklesia Project’s website, ekklesiaproject.org, states, participants share the four core convictions that they are unapologetically God-centered, Church-centered, Shalom-centered, and Political. In order to live more faithfully, participants in the EP do a variety of things to strengthen the church, encourage one another, and seek out new friendships. Among the things they do, they say probably the most important thing they do is to talk with one another about being faithful disciples of Jesus Christ. Those conversations, with intention, involve scholars, pastors, and laypeople.
Consequently, my guests for this episode are Kelly Johnson, a scholar/theologian, Kyle Childress, a pastor, and Chi-Ming Chien, a layperson. They help us understand the Ekklesia Project better and its importance.
The purpose of this series is to do two things. First it is to keep before you that there have always been certain Baptists who have, since their beginnings, argued for/advocated for/championed religious liberty for all people and the separation of church and state. These Baptists have done so because of their fundamental conviction that ‘soul freedom’ is a gift from God that enables everyone to have an active relationship with God. For these Baptists, for faith to a true faith, it must be embraced without any coercion of any kind. Since governments and religious bodies have often been the source of coerced faith, these Baptists have insisted that there must be a separation from government and institutional religious bodies.
The reason I want to keep before you the awareness of ‘these certain Baptists’ is for two reasons. The first is that many who are Baptist and, of course, most non-Baptists are unaware of the history of Baptist’s contribution to and advocacy for religious liberty for all and the separation of church and state. The second is that there are a growing number of Baptists who are a part of what is being called Christian Nationalism that have sought and continue to seek to undermine religious liberty for all and the separation of church and state.
The second reason for this series is to make you aware and educate you on specific challenges to religious liberty in government. The BJC is an excellent source for keeping you apprised of these challenges. In addition, the BJC seeks to challenge and thwart these aggression on religious liberty by actions in The Supreme Court and in Congress.
An excellent video introducing the BJC can be found on their website and here.
My guest is Amanda Tyler. Amanda is the Executive Director of the BJC. She is a member of the Texas and United States Supreme Court Bar. After graduating with a degree in foreign service from Georgetown University, Amanda worked for the BJC as an assistant to the general counsel. She left the BJC to earn her law degree from the University of Texas. Before returning to the BJC, Amanda has worked in private practice, as a law clerk for a U.S. district court judge in Dallas, and on the staff of U.S. Representative Lloyd Dogget, where she served as his district director and counsel for the Ways and Means Committee.
The Revised Common Lectionary came about ultimately as the product of the Ecumenical Movement and the conviction that it is God’s will that the Church be united–one body–the body of Christ. Specifically, it was the product of The Consultation on Common Texts which was formed by Catholic and Protestant liturgical scholars in response to the reforms in the liturgy mandated by the Second Vatican Council, especially in the area of English texts for the liturgy and then in the dissemination of the 1969 Roman Lectionary (Ordo Lectionum Missae). In 1983, The Common Lectionary was published as the outcome of the CCT’s work on the lectionary. In 1992, The Revised Common Lectionary was published in light of several years of comment and use of The Common Lectionary.
Because The Revised Common Lectionary was embraced so broadly across denominations, it moved the Ecumenical Movement forward by enabling the movement to go beyond focus on doctrine to lived and shared worship experiences. That achievement, in addition to significant improvements the RCL made over other historical lectionaries, made the RCL momentous and important.
However, since the RCL has been used/lived with/experienced now for nearly 30 years, reassessment has been occurring for some time, especially in the form of alternative lectionaries.
An article by Steve Thorngate in the October 30, 2013 issue of The Christian Century discusses some of these alternatives to the RCL.
I used the RCL during my nearly 13 years as a full-time pastor, which meant that I went through its three year cycle four times. While I found the RCL very useful and suited to my preaching abilities, I also found limitations similar to those mentioned in Thorngate’s article, so the article sparked my interest. However, since the article was published just as I was leaving my pastorate, I did not get the chance to explore the alternatives it lists and discusses.
In his book, Ecclesial Reflection, Edward Farley argues that many of the problems with which theology was struggling were, in part, due to theologies dependence on a type of foundationalism Farley calls ‘The House of Authority.’ In light of his understanding of the Gospel, Farley critiques the House of Authority, demonstrates its necessary collapse, and offers suggestions for doing theology in a post-House of Authority ecclesia. In his book, Practicing Gospel (This is the book that inspired the name of this podcast. I named this podcast, in part, in Farley’s memory since he is one of my favorite theologians.), in his three chapters on preaching, Farley argues that the lectionary is a remnant of the House of Authority and is thus, unwittingly, continuing some of the problems created by the House of Authority. Consequently, Farley urges an alternative approach to preaching.
While Farley doesn’t advise an alternative lectionary, his argument rekindled my interest and curiosity about alternative lectionaries.
Each of my guests have created an alternative lectionary and are here to discuss why they each did so and what their respective lectionaries seek to do.
Dr. Rolf Jacobson is Professor of Old Testament and the Alvin N. Rogness Chair of Scripture, Theology, and Ministry at Luther Seminary. He is known for his humor and faithful biblical interpretation. With Craig Koester, he developed and supports the Narrative Lectionary. He enjoys collaborating with other teachers and pastors. His collaborative projects include The Book of Psalms (NICOT; with Beth Tanner and Nancy deClaissé-Walford), Invitation to the Psalms (with Karl Jacobson), Crazy Talk: A Not-So-Stuffy Dictionary of Theological Terms (with five fellow Luther Seminary graduates), and Crazy Book: A Not-So-Stuffy Dictionary of Biblical Terms(with Hans Wiersma and Karl Jacobon). He is also the author of The Homebrewed Christianity Guide to the Old Testament: Israel’s In-Your-Face, Holy God. His voice can be heard on two weekly preaching podcasts, “Sermon Brainwave” and “The Narrative Lectionary,” as well as singing the high lonesome with a Lutheran bluegrass band, “The Fleshpots of Egypt.” A survivor of childhood cancer, he is a double, above-the-knee amputee, who generally wears a bicycle and a smile. He lives in St. Paul, Minnesota, with his beloved wife Amy, their children Ingrid and Gunnar, and a cat who thinks he is a dog. He is a loyal friend, lifelong sufferer of Minnesota sports, and committed board-game geek.
This episode is the second of what will be an ongoing series on Steady State Economics. In my mind, this approach to the economy provides the best option moving forward in light of the environmental crises developing due to approaches to the economy focused upon economic growth.
One of the things that appeals to me about this approach is that it is compatible with both capitalism and socialism, so that it is adaptable and adoptable to most of the worlds existing economies. A country does not have to switch to capitalism or socialism or deal with the struggle that would be the result of debating and seeking such a switch.
Although Brian does not get beyond the understanding of those of us who are not economists, he provides us with a thorough and excellent understanding of the development of growth economies and why those approaches to the economy not only are not sustainable, but are the cause of the crises we are beginning to experience. Such an understanding is necessary to recognize why a Steady State Economy is an essential solution for our future.
In addition to Supply Shock, Brian’s other works include:
As long as Biblical Storytellers are willing to be guests for this podcast, I want to have an ongoing series that enables you to enjoy this art form. There are multiple reasons why I enjoy this art form, but one of the main reasons is that it combines two ancient practices–storytelling and the public reading of scripture.
Throughout human history storytelling has played a fundamental role in human culture. It is one of humanity’s oldest art forms. There has always been an entertainment dimension in story telling, but story has used to do so much more. Stories have been used to give people their sense of identity, their understanding of reality, the notion of their place in the world. Stories been used to teach, guide, enlighten, reveal, change minds, and motivate. This is only a small list of the ways story has been used.
For the Jewish and Christian heritage, story is the primary dimension of scripture. As such it is understood to be a primary means by which Jews and Christians claim to understand and experience God. Both Jews and Christians see as a central to their obligation to God the task of bearing witness to God and God’s deeds. In order to fulfill that task, storytelling is necessary.
Since story makes up the primary dimension of Jewish and Christian scripture, it is not surprising that the public reading of scripture has been integral to both traditions. From the time of Moses forward, the public reading of scripture has been a part of Jewish worship, and since Christianity was birthed within Judaism, that tradition carried over has continued.
For Christian’s the biblical story has an interplay of two components relating to the task of witness–the prophetic and the Gospel. In light of God’s holiness and justice, the prophetic holds up a standard that calls us into question and accountability for the sinfulness, brokenness, and evil we choose to create. In light of God’s loving nature, the Gospel gives reveals to us the good news that God reaches out to us for reconciliation, healing, and redemption. Christian witness to God is thus an interplay of being prophetic and proclaiming the Gospel.
To give us an example of how biblical storytelling is a means of the interplay of these two components, especially as the biblical story relates to present circumstances and events is my guest, Drew Willard.
Drew Willard is an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ, seeking to be what Dennis Dewey of the Network of Biblical Storytellers, Int. calls a “storyvangelist”. Biblical storytelling and graphic arts have been important interpretive skills he brings to ministry. Since the 1990s, he has been performing his own paraphrased translations of the Gospels – notably at 19 venues while on a roadtrip in 2007. He has used his drawings for PowerPoint presentations to accompany Lenten readings, as well as for bulletin cover illustrations. He has organized and participated in interfaith worship events – including “Evenings of Sacred Storytelling” with Jewish and Muslim storytellers. While on sabbatical in 2017, he was an artist-in-residence at the Grunewald Guild in Washington state. In the winter of 2019, he was a Fringe Teller at the Florida Storytelling Association annual festival in Mt Dora, FL and that summer, he performed as a Co-Creator at the Wild Goose Festival in Asheville, NC. A collection of Drew’s paraphrased translations and artwork Gospel Pilgrimage Stories was published in 2017 by Westbow. He is available for preaching, teaching, drawing & storytelling by mutual agreement.
As I say in the interview, I am always thankful for those who open me to new insights and possibilities, especially as those insights and possibilities relate to my faith and enable me more fully to experience God, even if the terms they/she/he use(s) are not the same as mine. Judaism and Christianity have always been influenced/shaped by and borrowed concepts, ideas, and practices from other peoples, creatively adopting and adapting those things, sometimes even transforming them into something new.
Jesus, in his Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:45 says that God makes God’s sun to rise and gives rain to us all. For me that is one of the ways of God expressing God’s love for us all. In loving us all, God has given us each and all something to share with each other and together. So, part of what this podcast seeks to do is to build caring and opened bridges between those of us who are Christians and others to listen and find ways to share together ideas, practices, and experiences that make the world better and edify us all. Doing so seems to be a very Christian practice to me, although Christians are not the only ones who do such practices, as you will learn from this interview.
A person in my life who has opened me to new insights and possibilities in a loving and caring way is Michael Moses. I came to know Michael during my efforts at initiating the Institute for Christianity and the Arts at Palm Beach Atlantic College. In exploring the art form of liturgical dance, I developed a relationship with one of the dance instructors at the college. She was working with Michael in having him play percussion for rehearsals and performances. Realizing the connection with my interests, she introduced me to Michael. After getting to know him, he became a regular guest in both my Christianity and the Arts and Worship courses that I offered.
Michael’s heritage is Jewish and he lives in and through that heritage, but his own spiritual journey and experiences have led him to seek a broader, more inclusive spirituality. He says that he is guided by his personal trinity of an inclusive spirituality, the love of the arts, and the love of and care for the planet and its environment.
One of the opening things for me is that Michael has chosen to explore his spirituality especially through sound and rhythm. His concepts of the limitation of music, the importance of silence following a performance, the use of words with no meaning, and the ability of instrumental music to allow people to bring and connect with their own spirituality are wonderful insights that provide new possibilities for worship and communication.
Below are links to learn more about Michael and his work:
The challenge of Christianity and Christian churches in the United States and Europe is that traditional churches and denominational organizations are struggling. The gap between growth of the population as a whole and the number of those identifying themselves as Christians is increasing. In addition, attendance in ‘traditional’ denominational churches has been on the decline for over two decades. Hundreds of churches each year are closing. The result of the decline has created strain on denominational agencies. Since individual church budgets have declined because of the decline in attendance, denominational organizations, dependent upon church budgets, greatly have had to reduce their own staff, ministry, and budgets. These declines and closings are happening across the denominational and theological spectrum. As the other-than-Christian population continues to outdistance the Christian population, there is a rise in the numbers of those identifying themselves as the ‘nones,’ meaning that they do not identify with any organized religious group. ‘Spiritual’ but not ‘religious’ is a common expression of identity.
What does all of this mean for Christianity and for churches and denominations in the United States? How is God moving and leading during this time? What are we as Christians and churches supposed to do and to be in the context of these challenges? These are the sorts of questions to which we all, as Christians, are seeking to find answers. Consequently, there is, in an ironic way, or maybe even in a divinely providential way, a shared (dare I say ‘united’) conversation going on among us across the Christian spectrum.
Some, like Stanley Hauerwas, make the case that as Christianity and the Church become less connected to, disentangled from, and disassociated with the dominant culture and politics of the nation, the better able they are to be more truly Christian the church, since the dominant culture and politics of a nation is always corrupting.
Others, in seeing every problem and challenge as also an opportunity, envision, with eagerness, the possibility of the flourishing of new creativity within and from churches and Christian organizations. There is great deal of experimentation taking place. One such effort is Fresh Expressions. It is an effort that began in England, but has also taken root here in the United States.
My guest is Dr. Chris Backert, who is the National Director of Fresh Expressions US. In addition to his role as National Director of Fresh Expressions US, he serves with the Baptist General Association of Virginia in the area of growth and venture development. He also serves as National Director for both Ecclesia, a US network of missional churches, as well as Missio Alliance. Previously, he served as pastor of New Life Christian Fellowship, a large university congregation in Blacksburg, Virginia and has been involved in the planting of three new congregations. Chris holds a D.Min. in Missional Church Leadership from Fuller Theological Seminary.
You can learn more about Fresh Expressions, Chris, and his work at the Fresh Expressions’ website: freshexpressionus.org.
Even though great progress has been made addressing the spread of Human Immunodeficiency Virus and in treating those who have been infected with it, thousands are still being infected each year and people are still dying from it. To bring us up to date on this disease and issues related to it, such as Hepatitis C and Opioid addiction, and to learn how we, as Christians, can join with those who have or are effected in some way by the disease to do ministry, I have turned to Wayne Smith. Wayne is the founder of Samaritan Ministry, which is a ministry out of Central Baptist Bearden in Knoxville, TN.
You can learn more about Wayne and Samaritan Ministry at the excellent resource: samaritancentral.org.
Other important resources Wayne mentions in the interview are:
My guest for this episode is Dr. Melissa Rogers. Dr. Rogers was Associate General Counsel then General Counsel for the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty. Following this, she became Executive Director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships during the Obama administration and Special Assistant to President Obama.
Questions about the place of religion in American public life are continuously being raised and debated. Confusion and misconceptions abound. A significant part of what divides us in the political and cultural situation in our nation at this time revolves around religious liberty and plurality.
Dr. Rogers has provided an excellent resource to guide us on the confusing and complex issues relating to government and religion, religious liberty, and the separation of church and state in her recently published book, Faith in American Public Life (Baylor University Press, 2019). This book is the subject of my discussion with Dr. Rogers.
My kind of Baptists have, since the time before the American Revolution, been advocates for and active in issues of religious liberty (I use the phrase, ‘My kind of Baptists’ because there are many different kinds of Baptists and not all support religious liberty, plurality, and the separation of church and state). The existence of the Baptist Joint Committee is a key example of that advocacy and activity. Even though Dr. Rogers is no longer with the BJC, this episode serves as the first in an ongoing series I will have with the BJC about religious liberty and the policies and laws constantly arising concerning it.
Dr. Rogers is presently Visiting Professor at Wake Forest University and a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.